Comments on: What does the “vocational expert” do at a Social Security hearing?

By: TomaszStasiuk

TomaszStasiuk — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 17:45:00 +0000

Hi Dale. It sounds like you have a good case and a good lawyer fighting for you. I hope it works out.

By: Dale Hurst

Dale Hurst — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 14:49:00 +0000

My hearing was Oct 4, 2011 and the ALJ Gerard Rickert ended it by saying he was going to consult a Rheumatologist himself. I am in Central IL and he consulted with a Dr from Branson, MO? She acknowledged all my conditions but said she thinks I can work, this is after NOT examining me. This is in direct conflict with the RFC my Dr completed. I have seen this Dr every month or more since Jan 2011. He prescribes me 40mg of Hydrocodone SR X8 hours and Hydrocodone 10/325 x4 hours, and I am taking 20mg of Prednisone every other day, the Judge failed to include this in the hypothetical presented to the VE. There were several issues I will feel compelled to examine closer unless this ALJ provides a fully favorable decision soon.
I was not happy to get a call from my attorney the day before my hearing asking me to go by my treating Drs office and get my records on the way to my hearing as he did not have them. I signed consent to release forms in plenty of time, not only was this stressful on me but the records were not complete and this also meant the ALJ had not seen the treatment records of the same Dr who completed my RFC that clearly indicates I can not work. Anyhow it was acknowledged by the Judge and my attorney there was an issue with my records but we proceeded. The ALJ mentioned that I had went through a 3 day detox from oxycontin and that I had also been hospitalized for an overdose. I tried to make it clear that I detoxed off the oxycontin because I did not like it and wanted off it. The pain center that was treating me released me when I refused to take the oxy. The overdose was because my family Dr gave me Ativan knowing I was on 60mg of oxycontin x12 hours. The Drs at the ER said I should not have been mixing those drugs, I didn’t know and my family Dr shrugged it off when I told him I almost died from it. I mention this because it seems the ALJ thinks I have a drug problem.
The ALJ also asked me if I read throughout the day and I said yes, he asked what and I told him I read my Bible. He sounded condescending when he somewhat sneered back “is that all you read”? I said no, I read other inspirational books. He also asked me about my sleep schedule and after telling him I am usually up by 6am he asked when I went to bed and I responded before midnight, he said “Why”? in a tone and I told him because I still have a schedule even though I am disabled.
There were a couple other issues but we wrapped it up by the ALJ saying if he had seen the records in front of him before he would have had a Medical expert instead of Vocational and he was going to consult a medical expert as mentioned above. The ALJ forwarded the form completed by the out of state Dr who has never seen me and a letter to my attorney asking if he wanted to dispute it or enter more evidence on my part. My attorney responded by saying the out of state Drs opinion was not accurate, my conditions mainly the Rheumatoid Arthritis was not being controlled by drugs and that he can not disregard my treating Drs opinion expressed in my RFC report. He said unless the ALJ was prepared to issue a Fully Favorable decision then we are requesting a supplemental hearing. If for some reason this ALJ has the wrong opinion of me and unfairly bases his decision on that I will be pursuing it all the way. The ALJ seems to think I am a drug addicted malingerer and that is far from the truth. I fought and struggled for years trying to NOT take pain meds and aside from a solid work history I am a family man married over 20 years and 4 kids. My wife has been a dedicated Police Dispatcher for over 16 years in Decatur, IL. I will be taking her as a witness if I have a supplemental hearing, she missed my 1st hearing because she had to work. I think I will even take her latest employee evaluation just to add a little more credibility for the ALJ’s sake.
He has no basis to disregard my Dr’s opinion over some one who is out of state and never seen me. I hope and pray he does the right thing although I put it in God’s hands long ago.
Last thing I will point out is I was very impressed by my attorney telling the ALJ in this letter that it’s not fair he is delaying this due to the overwhelming evidence on my part and looking harder for a reason to deny me.
49 year old male with Rheumatoid Arthritis, C2 and C3 ruptured discs in neck, degenerative disc disease, severe sleep apnea, chronic fatigue syndrome, fybermyalgia, both elbows broke and deformed, depression, anxiety, deformed bones in right foot, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, severe acid reflux, and finally COPD.

By: How to apply for–and win–Social Security disability benefits « LegallyBlog® by Sami K. Hartsfield, ACP

Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:23:33 +0000

[...] expert (for an excellent explanation of what a vocation expert is at the hearing to do, please go here). These experts are not against you per se as this hearing is not adversarial, and nobody is there [...]

By: TomaszStasiuk

TomaszStasiuk — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:33:00 +0000

Hi Jeff,

The evidence sounds good. However, you need to understand that a case is not one thing. It is *all* the evidence that Social Security considers. Consider a race car. It is not just the engine, or the wheels, or the transmission, or any of several hundred parts. It all of them, how they are put together, plus the track the care will racing on, and the race day conditions. Asking for your chances is like saying you have a great engine and asking if you can win a race with it. Possibly, but I don’t even know if you have wheels.

The Social Security file is often between 200 – 800 pages. Social Security uses all that information to review your case. A lawyer reviews all that information to look for what’s good and what can blow up in your face. It is all important.

Asking for your chances based on a summary is saying, “I’m going to draw you a picture of a house, do you think it will survive a hurricane?” Without the architectural plans, materials list, building methods and location, I have no idea.

It certainly sounds like you have a case. But, will you win? I can’t tell you. The devil is the details and lawyers with work Social Security applicants for up to 18 months because of that very reason.

By: TomaszStasiuk

TomaszStasiuk — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:52:00 +0000

I hope so too. In a situation like that raises the issue of which hat the VE is wearing while testifying. A VE is sworn in and accepted as an expert on vocational issues. If that same VE then begins to testify on psychological issues, that can become a problem. It could also really help if the VE can bring in their knowledge of the effect of different conditions.

I know you said the ALJ did not use the VE. However, you describe an interesting situation.
Good luck on your case!

By: WISS

WISS — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 18:56:00 +0000

I know the VE at my ALJ hearing today was a ‘vocational psychologist’ and is even the professor emeritus of the vocational counseling dept at the local university. Seems to be the judge’s pick for any SSDI claim regarding psych conditions, as he has BG in psychology. There are many various types of VEs around, some specialize in certain types of cases as they can better understand the limitations certain conditions may present. Though I am glad my ALJ hearing didn’t make any use of the VE, though this could be for better or worse. Just goes to show that the VE is actually somewhat a neutral party. Only time will tell if the ALJ not utilizing the VE was good or bad…. I hope the former….

By: Rangers

Rangers — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 22:08:00 +0000

I had my 1st hearing today, VE said there were no jobs for me with my impairments, can I still be denied benefits?

By: TomaszStasiuk

TomaszStasiuk — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 20:55:00 +0000

I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you.

By: anointed

anointed — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 06:52:00 +0000

i had my appeal and the judge asked the VE about my work history she said medium she brought up to jobs and said how many there was nationwide and locally then the judge said with missing work 2 to 3 time a week will there be any work the ve said no work the he said with concentration only 80 percent of the time will there be work the ve said no work could i possibly win my case

By: TomaszStasiuk

TomaszStasiuk — Mon, 11 Jul 2011 20:24:00 +0000

Can’t say if the judge is biased. The judge said he had “serious concerns” and those probably remain — I’m guessing of course. It sounds like your attorney is gearing up for a fight, which is good. Your attorney probably already knows about the two memos issued to judges on unemployment issues but just in case, here you are: http://www.socialsecurityinsider.com/2009/03/how-do-unemployment-benefits-affect-a-social-security-disability-claim/

By: Janetdaniw

Janetdaniw — Mon, 11 Jul 2011 20:16:00 +0000

I am 49 yr old woman. I first applied on my own in 2001, and of course was turned down. At this point I had yet to be diagnosed but was experiencing chronic widespread pain…daily. I tried to go back to work (retail) and was in and out of work until 2004 when I finally hired an atty. After 18 mos and many many surgeries I was diagnosed with Degenerative Bone Disease. I went to court in April 2005, was granted disability, only to receive a letter 3 wks later from the judge stating because I was collecting unemployment he has “serious questions regarding my credibility”. I explained in the hearing the last company I worked for was kind enough to give me a pink slip, which does not mean I can work. I appealed his decision in August of 2004, and it was sent to Va. I won the appeal in Virginia and they kicked it back to Ct. My hearing is Aug 24th with the SAME judge and today my lawyer informs me the state hired a “Vocational Expert” so she will be doing the same. I have not worked in 7 yrs. I have no health ins and the pain is ridiculous. Is this judge biased or am I paranoid?

By: TomaszStasiuk

TomaszStasiuk — Wed, 25 May 2011 22:35:00 +0000

The lawyer didn’t show!!! ??? !!!

Wow…

As far as the average time for a decision after a hearing, see http://www.socialsecurityinsider.com/2008/05/how-long-after-my-social-security-hearing-does-it-take-to-get-a-decision/

Keep in mind this is based on my experience in Colorado. However, if a judge tells an individual that the decision will be issued “very quickly” the decision may be issued in only a couple of weeks. But, really, who knows.

Come back and let us know how long it took and which hearing office heard your case.

By: JD

JD — Wed, 25 May 2011 22:24:00 +0000

My husband had his ssd appeal hearing only 2 weeks ago. I’ve been reading your replies to questions & everything sounds similar. I was permitted to go into the hearing with my husband & offer testimony to his case. My husbands lawyer was a no show. Non-the-less, the hearing seemed to go well. Before entering the hearing room we were given a CD & directed to a room to view all of the medical documentation & doctors letters etc that SS had collected in reference to my husbands case & all seemed to be in order. We were quite surprised by a few of the letters they had received from past & current doctors who treat/treated my husband for his orthopedic conditions, they all were favorable. The Vocational Expert narrowed the jobs available to my husband to 3 that may be appropriate for him. However, at the end of the hearing the Vocational Expert was asked 2 ‘hypothetical’ questions..first being would my husband be able to perform anyof the 3 jobs with his current limitations, the answer ‘no-none’. The second question being would my husband be able to perform any of the 3 jobs while taking his current medications, the answer ‘no-none’.

Throughout the hearing my husband & I both asked questions & I was permitted to add additional information after my husband spoke. Before leaving the judge told my husband and I that he found us to be very candid, that he does not see that often. At that point my husband asked him how long before he would have his decision & the judge responded that my husband would be receiving his decision very quickly.

‘Quickly’ this word is of concern, my husband has been fighting for disability since 2004 and had been denied & denied & re-filed, etc…. I am reading about ‘decision letter writers’…this is confusing to me…can you tell me what the average wait time is for an appeal decision?

By: JD

JD — Wed, 25 May 2011 22:24:00 +0000

By: TomaszStasiuk

TomaszStasiuk — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:33:00 +0000

As noted in the post, WHICH hypothetical the judge uses in the decision is anyone’s guess. Without being at the hearing, I cannot make any kind of informed guess.

As for how long it may take to get a decision, see http://www.socialsecurityinsider.com/2008/05/how-long-after-my-social-security-hearing-does-it-take-to-get-a-decision/

Social Security does not provide transcripts, however claimants and their representatives can get a copy of the recording (typically on disc).

By: Brian Newell

Brian Newell — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:12:00 +0000

In the follow up question she eliminated those jobs saying that personal interaction with people and stress would keep me from preforming those jobs. The judge ask her what if any jobs i would qualify for and the two that she gave was the two listed above and then he ask her did she think i could do those jobs and her reply was no for the reasons listed above. Also how long on average does it take to get a reply by mail from the judge? And can i request a transcript of the hearing and if so and i get turned down can i use that transcript for future hearings or appeals? Thanks for your reply and advice in advance.

By: TomaszStasiuk

TomaszStasiuk — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:24:00 +0000

Without having been there, I can’t say what the VE meant.

However, one issue is whether this was part of the answer to a single hypothetical?

Or did the VE eliminate the jobs based on additional limitations in a followup question/hypothetical.

By: Brian Newell

Brian Newell — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:06:00 +0000

My VE said i qualified to do two jobs a ticket taker and a tagger whatever that is but then she told the judge that i would be unable to do the jobs because of people interaction and stress so i am a little confused about what she is trying to convey to me and the judge.

By: TomaszStasiuk

TomaszStasiuk — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 04:29:00 +0000

Right. However, it is no different than physical limitations. If a VE says an individual is still able to perform the duties of a “call out operator” or “inbound telemarketer” despite needing a sit-stand option, it doesn’t really matter if the individual’s own past experience in these jobs is that their employer would not tolerate that limitations. That is, that a VE says that a particular limitation should not prevent an individual from being able to perform the duties a hypothetical job, does not help an individual find an employer who will tolerate the limitation in the real world.

However, let’s take a stop back. VEs do not testify at hearings to provide evidence that is contrary to the real world. One of their roles is to temper the often out-of-date evidence in the Dictionary of Occupational Titles with more recent job treatises and personally performed surveys of real-world jobs as they are actually performed. This is one of the VE’s chief roles at a hearing!

When there is a discrepancy between a claimant’s experience with a job and what the VE testifies to (often as to duties or which limitations would be tolerated in a job), that can be brought up during the cross examination of the VE.

By: Genebrightwell

Genebrightwell — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 02:48:00 +0000

How can a vocational expert have any say on mental disabilities I mean you dont get a VE slip to give to your boss when your sick etc.