22Sep

What does the “vocational expert” do at a Social Security hearing?

By Tomasz Stasiuk, September 22nd, 2008 | 3 Hearings | 58 Comments

Under Social Security regulations, it is not enough to have a disability (a diagnosed medical condition). Your condition has to be severe enough to be prevent you from being able to engage in a “substantial gainful activity;” typically full time, competitive, employment. If you cannot show that your condition keeps you from being able to work, you will probably lose your case.

At the hearing, the Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) has a Vocational Expert testify about the the kinds of jobs are available, and how work-place limitations affect your ability to perform those jobs.

Basically, the Vocational Expert answers two questions for the judge (phrased as hypotheticals):

Can you still perform any of the jobs you have done over the last 15 years?
Can you still perform any other jobs which exist in substantial numbers in the national economy?

The judge uses the vocational expert’s answers to decide if you can still work (and therefore, whether you are disabled). This makes the vocational expert’s role extremely important!

Bloomington Illinois Social Security Lawyer Dirk May wrote an interesting article a while back about vocational experts:

What do you do when the judge turns to the vocational expert and gives him the hypothetical question?

You need to listen carefully to the type of limitations the judge provides to the vocational expert. If you have a limitation that he does not list or that is in your medical records you need to ask the expert about the effect the limitation would have on your past work.

The vocational expert will often be asked to provide examples of jobs you could perform based on your limitations. Once again, listen carefully for the types of jobs listed. If you do not understand the job duties ask for details. Listen for the exertional level, such as sedentary or light. Ask what makes the particular job sedentary or light.

Typically, the Judge will ask vocational expert two or sometimes three sets of hypotheticals based on different limitations.

The first set of hypotheticals may be based a form a Social Security doctor or technician filled out about your limitations.
The second set may be based on a what your doctors have said about your limitations. This often gives you your best chance of winning. You have gotten your doctors to describe your limitations haven’t you?
The last set of questions may be a mash up of what the Social Security doctor has said, what your doctor has said, and what you said during the hearing.

Here is the $64,000 question: if the judge asks three sets of questions, and gets three different (even conflicting) answers … which set of answers will the judge use to decide if you are disabled or not?

The only way to even try to answer this is to have done a lot of hearings with that judge and really know the Social Security rules and regulations. Only then, can you hope to read the judge. In other words, you really need to have an attorney by your side.

Read the rest of Dirk May’s article here.

Did you hear any strange questions, or answers, at your Social Security hearing? Share your experiences in the comments?

Tomasz Stasiuk is the founding attorney of the Stasiuk Firm - a law firm devoted to exclusively handling Social Security disability cases in Colorado. Contingent fees available.

http://www.Planet10Tech.com TomaszStasiuk

I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you.
Rangers

I had my 1st hearing today, VE said there were no jobs for me with my impairments, can I still be denied benefits?
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_A4IRRGA4DGRZN5BOCZZMWW67DQ WISS

I know the VE at my ALJ hearing today was a ‘vocational psychologist’ and is even the professor emeritus of the vocational counseling dept at the local university. Seems to be the judge’s pick for any SSDI claim regarding psych conditions, as he has BG in psychology. There are many various types of VEs around, some specialize in certain types of cases as they can better understand the limitations certain conditions may present. Though I am glad my ALJ hearing didn’t make any use of the VE, though this could be for better or worse. Just goes to show that the VE is actually somewhat a neutral party. Only time will tell if the ALJ not utilizing the VE was good or bad…. I hope the former….
http://www.Planet10Tech.com TomaszStasiuk

I hope so too. In a situation like that raises the issue of which hat the VE is wearing while testifying. A VE is sworn in and accepted as an expert on vocational issues. If that same VE then begins to testify on psychological issues, that can become a problem. It could also really help if the VE can bring in their knowledge of the effect of different conditions.

I know you said the ALJ did not use the VE. However, you describe an interesting situation.
Good luck on your case!
http://www.Planet10Tech.com TomaszStasiuk

Hi Jeff,

The evidence sounds good. However, you need to understand that a case is not one thing. It is *all* the evidence that Social Security considers. Consider a race car. It is not just the engine, or the wheels, or the transmission, or any of several hundred parts. It all of them, how they are put together, plus the track the care will racing on, and the race day conditions. Asking for your chances is like saying you have a great engine and asking if you can win a race with it. Possibly, but I don’t even know if you have wheels.

The Social Security file is often between 200 – 800 pages. Social Security uses all that information to review your case. A lawyer reviews all that information to look for what’s good and what can blow up in your face. It is all important.

Asking for your chances based on a summary is saying, “I’m going to draw you a picture of a house, do you think it will survive a hurricane?” Without the architectural plans, materials list, building methods and location, I have no idea.

It certainly sounds like you have a case. But, will you win? I can’t tell you. The devil is the details and lawyers with work Social Security applicants for up to 18 months because of that very reason.
Pingback: How to apply for–and win–Social Security disability benefits « LegallyBlog® by Sami K. Hartsfield, ACP
Dale Hurst

My hearing was Oct 4, 2011 and the ALJ Gerard Rickert ended it by saying he was going to consult a Rheumatologist himself. I am in Central IL and he consulted with a Dr from Branson, MO? She acknowledged all my conditions but said she thinks I can work, this is after NOT examining me. This is in direct conflict with the RFC my Dr completed. I have seen this Dr every month or more since Jan 2011. He prescribes me 40mg of Hydrocodone SR X8 hours and Hydrocodone 10/325 x4 hours, and I am taking 20mg of Prednisone every other day, the Judge failed to include this in the hypothetical presented to the VE. There were several issues I will feel compelled to examine closer unless this ALJ provides a fully favorable decision soon.
I was not happy to get a call from my attorney the day before my hearing asking me to go by my treating Drs office and get my records on the way to my hearing as he did not have them. I signed consent to release forms in plenty of time, not only was this stressful on me but the records were not complete and this also meant the ALJ had not seen the treatment records of the same Dr who completed my RFC that clearly indicates I can not work. Anyhow it was acknowledged by the Judge and my attorney there was an issue with my records but we proceeded. The ALJ mentioned that I had went through a 3 day detox from oxycontin and that I had also been hospitalized for an overdose. I tried to make it clear that I detoxed off the oxycontin because I did not like it and wanted off it. The pain center that was treating me released me when I refused to take the oxy. The overdose was because my family Dr gave me Ativan knowing I was on 60mg of oxycontin x12 hours. The Drs at the ER said I should not have been mixing those drugs, I didn’t know and my family Dr shrugged it off when I told him I almost died from it. I mention this because it seems the ALJ thinks I have a drug problem.
The ALJ also asked me if I read throughout the day and I said yes, he asked what and I told him I read my Bible. He sounded condescending when he somewhat sneered back “is that all you read”? I said no, I read other inspirational books. He also asked me about my sleep schedule and after telling him I am usually up by 6am he asked when I went to bed and I responded before midnight, he said “Why”? in a tone and I told him because I still have a schedule even though I am disabled.
There were a couple other issues but we wrapped it up by the ALJ saying if he had seen the records in front of him before he would have had a Medical expert instead of Vocational and he was going to consult a medical expert as mentioned above. The ALJ forwarded the form completed by the out of state Dr who has never seen me and a letter to my attorney asking if he wanted to dispute it or enter more evidence on my part. My attorney responded by saying the out of state Drs opinion was not accurate, my conditions mainly the Rheumatoid Arthritis was not being controlled by drugs and that he can not disregard my treating Drs opinion expressed in my RFC report. He said unless the ALJ was prepared to issue a Fully Favorable decision then we are requesting a supplemental hearing. If for some reason this ALJ has the wrong opinion of me and unfairly bases his decision on that I will be pursuing it all the way. The ALJ seems to think I am a drug addicted malingerer and that is far from the truth. I fought and struggled for years trying to NOT take pain meds and aside from a solid work history I am a family man married over 20 years and 4 kids. My wife has been a dedicated Police Dispatcher for over 16 years in Decatur, IL. I will be taking her as a witness if I have a supplemental hearing, she missed my 1st hearing because she had to work. I think I will even take her latest employee evaluation just to add a little more credibility for the ALJ’s sake.
He has no basis to disregard my Dr’s opinion over some one who is out of state and never seen me. I hope and pray he does the right thing although I put it in God’s hands long ago.
Last thing I will point out is I was very impressed by my attorney telling the ALJ in this letter that it’s not fair he is delaying this due to the overwhelming evidence on my part and looking harder for a reason to deny me.
49 year old male with Rheumatoid Arthritis, C2 and C3 ruptured discs in neck, degenerative disc disease, severe sleep apnea, chronic fatigue syndrome, fybermyalgia, both elbows broke and deformed, depression, anxiety, deformed bones in right foot, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, severe acid reflux, and finally COPD.
http://www.Planet10Tech.com TomaszStasiuk

Hi Dale. It sounds like you have a good case and a good lawyer fighting for you. I hope it works out.